Melee Moonkins, Lolrestocats and dead bear healers
November 24, 2011 in Healing, PvE, Restoration Druid, World of Warcraft
Hi folks,
Blizzard released their MoP calculator with all the shiny new talents on it! Before I begin rambling, please note that this isn’t set in stone. The expansion isn’t coming out for a while, but discussion is welcome, for people can point out things the devs need to think about while they continue to work on it. I freaked out when I saw Malfurion’s Gift increased the cd on Tranquility by 18 minutes for non resto druids and 8 minutes for resto druids /facepalm.
(source): http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3595344828?page=2#32
Ok, let’s begin!
If you’ll recall, I did my original MoP druid preview here. I have mixed feelings about the new tiers of talents, because not all of them have talents that remotely have anything to do with healing. Restoration druids only get a few spells compared to the rest of the specs, with talents being largely feral cat/bear or moonkin. I still did my preview of the new druid talents as is and wrote how talents offered could be beneficial for restoration druids as it were live, even though those aren’t quite restoration druid related, they still bring a form of utility and usefulness. I believe that we should keep a open mind, and be creative.
But on the other hand, druids should be able to perform in their offspec form for a reasonable limited time using talents with cds in any offspec form they choose and only access those offspec specific spells. The reason for jumping on that bandwagon is because I want to be able to pop in what form I need to be in at a particular moment in any kind of combat situation, pvp or pve. I go cat or bear all the time on my restoration druid because I believe in the utility of the form brings me. I am able to stun or interrupt things when I need to help the raid for a few minutes as a Bear/kitty. I throw in some moonkin dps when I’m not healing on my druid to speed things up a little. I’m against the belief that druids should be able to continue to perform their main form’s role when they are in a offspec form, because it would simply defeat the purpose of shifting. A restoration druid being able to heal in kitty form or bear form doesn’t seem right to me and you can bet it would be so nerfed that it wouldn’t be worth trying to use Dash in cat casting HoTs.
We however need to be at least decent when we do decide to shift into the offspec forms that do work with our main role/spec. As an example, Restokin points out that the idea of certain specs like Moonkin trying to melee when they are a ranged class in the most simplistic sense in the overall scheme of what Atachu describes the Holy Trinity of combat roles, it is a bad thing. Hunters got their melee weapons removed entirely in MoP, because they are strictly a ranged class. To survive as a Hunter is to never, ever be in melee. Moonkins are no different when it comes to performing melee, and they should get the same treatment.
Focus on giving moonkins higher healing capabilities if they need to assist with healing, or give them talents that increase their dps output as moonkin since they are naturally attuned to caster spells. Give restoration druids higher dps output because they can use moonkin spells due to similiar stats for moonkins, and talents that could be used to give their heals a boost. Bears could get more focus on being able to go cat when an encounter calls for a tank swap, and still do decent dps while the bear waits for his turn to tank. Because like cats, bears are also melee. This makes much better sense, right?
Bear tanks are more limited to having to stay in bear, they can’t cast Tranquility or go Moonkin because of the main role they are supposed to be performing- tanking. Else, they’d end up a smear on the ground after being squashed by an angry boss. When you look at the philosophical saying, “Jack of all trades, master of none,” it definitely applies with complaints that druids don’t perform that well when they shift into a specific hybrid form/spec with current game designs. You are never going to see a Moonkin trying to melee, nor a Bear reverting to a casting form to use Tranquility. This is the reason why druids want this changed so they at least feel useful in forms that do work for them.
At the end of the day, Restokin points out that, while it would absolutely be great if those scenarios worked, but we are spreading ourselves too thinly from a game design standpoint. ”We’ve had 7 years to figure out what works and what doesn’t, let’s just go along with what works,” she says, pushing for more focus on the capabilities uniquely suited to a specific form and remove what doesn’t work like Moonkins trying to melee. In her summary of her post, she concludes focusing more on what works with the type of hybrid models for druids would work out better in the long run.
We should be doing that when it is obvious things just don’t work. I’m lucky as a restoration druid, because I am uniquely suited to perform any spec without too much of a sacrifice of not healing a raid. I can go kitty, perhaps not to actually melee dps, but for the mobility and useful utility cats give me. I can do that as a bear too, while I might not actually be able to tank for an extended period of time, I still bring the usefulness of acting as a temporary interrupter or to keep myself alive. I throw in moonkin DPS because I can, since I still have stats from my main spec that work well with moonkin spells, and because I’m also a ranged class.
Back to the argument of just how well can druids perform their offspec roles- I don’t expect to be able to perform my offspec roles just as effectively as main-spec druids in their form. It’s not going to happen, for this would simply be unfair to the rest of the WoW classes when it comes to pve, and especially pvp. Proposals to increase the effectiveness of performing your offspec roles close to 100% have been met with criticisms that it would simply be too OP. Paladins have similiar problems in the sense of how effective their offspec spells should be when they use it. They need to be limited at some point, since they are also a hybrid class that have access to offspec spells. In addition, they don’t even have to lose a GCD by shifting like Druids do when they need to use a offspec spell or ability. I sympathize with the Paladins, but at least they don’t lose GCDs when they shift
We need to be limited at some point, because after all, it is a cooldown that increases your ability to do a specific for a limited time, and we can’t go too far in the name of fair game balance. We will only be allowed to be effective at a certain percentage of the true spec we are trying to perform in a shifted offspec.
All in all, we should expect some road bumps down the road as we head closer to the release of MoP. I hope druids will recognize it doesn’t work playing melee as a moonkin or going lolrestocat, and instead embrace what works like moonkins with stronger healing capabilities or bears with higher dps output as cats. Only until then, we’ll shift as much as you ask us to.
I’m sure the Devs appreciate the feedback from the Druid community and will take things into consideration as they develop MoP. I will definitely be following these debates as they go back and forth, and see what will come to pass. For now, it’s too early, let’s discuss the big and shiny talent we’re getting, shall we? We get Symbiosis! I have to give Blizzard props for this awesome talent and the creativity of this!
Symbiosis (level 87):
Creates a symbiotic link which grants the Druid one ability belonging to the target’s class, varying by the Druid’s specialization. In exchange, grants the target one Druid ability based on their class and combat role. Lasts 1 hour and persists through death.
How awesome is this?! I’m very excited to try this out when MoP goes live. This brings something very useful to us- I’m going to be cackling as I pop ToL and dance around using mirror image from Mages using this ability. I can’t even begin to think of all the possibilities this could bring to druids in any spec. Naturally, I’m sure this will be limited to probably a select few spells from every class we decide to use Symbiosis on. This could also help druids perform their offspec roles if they wish to, or be even more powerful in their main role spec. Bear tanks can borrow from their fellow holy paladins’ instant WoGs or LoH to save the day, or cast Divine Protection for additional resistance against spell damage. Moonkins could borrow mirror image from Mages, and presto, you have three moonkins! Restoration druids could probably borrow a healing spell from their fellow priest healers or a shadow priest’s powerful dots when they decide to use moonkin spells to add more dots along with Insect Swarm and Moonfire.
This talent might make feeling like a “Jack of all trades, master of none” druid hurt a little less, and come to save the day like a knight in shining armor. I’ll keep you posted as things develop in the druid community and as Blizzard works towards MoP. Thank you Restokin for being so informative and bringing up good points
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Hey Aidrana, I appreciate the link.
I just wanted to chime in and suggest my proposal was not to completely remove the ability of a given class to perform secondary roles, but that it should be limited (hunters having melee weapons removed is too limiting!). I’ve a list of topics to tackle, perhaps hybridization should be next. Seems to be more of a ‘hot’ topic (everything lately feels cold compared to that Skyrim buzz).
Symbiosis sounds very interesting. Like all ideas though, it is the implementation that would be to look for. It looks to be a good idea, for what it’s worth. Might help ease some of the problems you’ve identified.
P.S., I love your post to-do List on your site… I’m thinking of doing the same thing for my site
The ‘To-Do’ list was born not of an idea to do something cool, but necessity to keep tabs on topics of which I feel I have something to contribute. I try to use graphs to illustrate points and the time commitments of my posts exceed my ability to keep up with topics of interest. Glad I could contribute to your blog design by happenstance, though!
I’ve also got that hybrid post waiting for your insight and critique, since you mentioned having an interest. Cheers!
I plan on commenting on your latest post, but first, may I email you about something? I have your email now from your private comment information, but would like to know if you are ok with that
I am absolutely ok with that and look forward to what you have to say. I’d offer to use the ahtchu gmail for blogging purposes
Helps with personal organization.
Hi Ahtchu:
Hunters are getting their melee weapon slot removed completely in MoP and they won’t ever melee again. Let me know if I’m wrong though! Hunters having their melee weapons removed, even as limiting it may be, it is defintely still a different thing from performing another spec like moonkins going cat. That would only change if we were allowed to perform our offspec specs more effectively, and you’ll see druids shapeshifting left and right. Right now we don’t shapeshift unless it’s to save the day, acting as an emergency button, if the offspec actually suited your hybrid main spec. It’s just not that interesting to me right now and there is no logic behind moonkins trying to melee.
I feel like Blizzard is trying to change that when it hasn’t worked in the past. They’re trying to improve every spec and how likely is it going to be good enough for moonkins to actually want to melee as a cat without losing dps? What would the point be of trading your ranged dps for some offspec subpar dps? We know that offspecs will never be as efficient as our main specs, Blizzard has drawn that line there, therefore, what is the logic behind moonkins going cat to melee? Do you honestly think you’ll see moonkins trying to melee with the current proposed talents for druids in MoP? I don’t.
Overall, I’m happy with some of the neat talents they’ve come up with but I hope they’ll listen to the Druid community. Thank you for commenting and if you make an hybridization post, I’ll definitely be checking it out
[...] The defining point of interest involves a dynamic design that asks for a hybrid to perform skills that they are able to: that of filling multiple roles. I’ve given examples around the blogosphere of the ways this has been accomplished in the past, and it’s worth illustrating again here. The hybrid doesn’t want to be a dedicated tank, a dedicated damage, a dedicated healer. A hybrid wants to perform them all at various points in time. Nor do they (or should they) be able to perform multiple at the exact same time. [...]